Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Assistant Minister for the Public Service
JO TRILLING, HOST: Patrick Gorman is the Federal Member for Perth. He’s also the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister. He’s in the studio to discuss a new strategy that government is hoping will lead to more diversity in the public sector. Good afternoon.
PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER AND ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE: Good afternoon, Jo. Good afternoon to your listeners.
TRILLING: Before we get to that, I just want to touch on another issue. We’ve learned the man charged over the brutal bashing of Perth grandmother Ninette Simons was subjected to a curfew which he breached prior to allegedly assaulting the 73-year-old. How was your government monitoring Mr. Doukoshkan?
GORMAN: Your listeners would be aware that we established in December last year, what we call the Community Protection Board. That gives government advice on the best way to deal with this cohort of individuals. A cohort that the government when this case was before the High Court, we argued against releasing these individuals. It was clear to us that we did not want them in the community. There was a reason they were in detention, there was a reason that successive governments had put them in detention. This was not the outcome we got. But it’s important that as a government, we complied with decisions of the courts of this land. And that’s what we did last year. When it comes to this individual case, I think everyone in Western Australia and indeed, across the nation who has seen those images is shocked how any human could do that for another human. It is just absolutely abhorrent.
TRILLING: There are questions, though, around how he was monitored. We understand he was not subject to electronic monitoring, should he have been wearing an ankle bracelet?
GORMAN: Well, again, we take the advice to the Community Protection Board, some of that information that you have referred to, I have seen just as I have come into the studio. So I am not in a position to add to it. I am also cautious about doing so because obviously, for Ninette and her husband, there is a case now in front of the courts about prosecuting this gentleman. I want to be really careful about what I say and adding to that while it’s in front of the courts. But I do think it’s important that your listeners know that if the government had our way, and the court had made a different decision, these individuals still be in immigration detention.
TRILLING: You did mention preventative detention orders, in early December Parliament did rush through powers for them, have any PDO applications been lodged?
GORMAN: I am conscious that when it comes to these really precise matters that you have asked. I do not want to give an answer just based on what I think to be the case. So I am going to respectfully say there would be an answer to that question. I am sure the minister could provide you.
TRILLING: But the minister has not spoken yet. That’s something else that a lot of people have got concerns about why aren’t the immigration and home affairs ministers making themselves available? To answer those kinds of questions?
GORMAN: I think you can see, we have indeed had the Prime Minister, stand up today. I am here in your studio talking about things that are in my responsibilities –
TRILLING: Prime Minister did not respond to any of those questions though.
GORMAN: Well the Prime Minister responded to a range of questions and also was in Alice Springs making other important announcements about community safety. So, I think it is appropriate that we recognise that different people on different days will be out there talking about the government’s broad agenda when it comes to the ministers that you refer to. I think, obviously, there is a huge amount of work being done that we have been doing for months now about dealing with this decision of the High Court. A decision that again, I could wish that they made a different decision that would make a difference. The court made a decision, we have got to deal with the consequences of that decision, as with any government of any persuasion. Be it a government led by independent government, led by Liberal Party or the National Party.
TRILLING: I guess the question, though, then is should your government have moved faster when it comes to preventative detention orders? And has it failed here when it comes to public safety?
GORMAN: We have moved when it comes to the preventative detention regime that we put in place, including the community safety requirements we put through in parliament in December. Indeed, at that time, we also had people saying that we were going too fast. I am pleased that we acted with the speed at which we did, that was the appropriate thing to do, will always monitor whether governments and individual ministers have the appropriate legislative powers to keep the community safe. That is what we seek to do with this cohort. I also recognise that community safety is a responsibility which are both the Commonwealth has responsibility. The State Government has responsibility when it comes to community policing. And we all have a responsibility when it comes to if we say something out in our community. Whether it be something dangerous on the road, someone who is acting unusually, we all have a responsibility to our neighbours and to our fellow residents. I do not want to skirt around it, what we have seen is shocking that people would do that sort of violent action to any other human being, particularly an elderly person like that. It is just absolutely shocking.
TRILLING: The Federal Member for Perth, Patrick Gorman is in the studio. Moving on to this strategy, does the public sector adequately reflect the community it serves at the moment?
GORMAN: The Commonwealth public sector at the moment broadly does represent the community when it comes to gender diversity. When it comes to Cultural and Linguistic Diversity. I will note that the Commonwealth public sector is not just in Canberra. We have actually got about 8,000 Commonwealth public servants based here in Western Australia. They do an incredible job of actually servicing not just Western Australians but providing services to the entire nation. When it comes to the senior levels of the public service, the Cultural and Linguistic Diversity is not there. So, we have sought today to put out a strategy that we have developed in consultation with hundreds and hundreds of public servants to make sure that we do get that senior leadership in the public service that reflects the community at large. We have had challenges in this area with gender diversity in the past. We have taken action and we have addressed that. This is about making sure that we have a public sector that has all of the talents available to it, and that we are employer of choice for those people who might be your listeners who are looking for a career shift. To come into the wonderful world of serving the public in the public service.
TRILLING: So how are you going to do it, are you going to set quotas?
GORMAN: We set a benchmark, which we have set at 24 per cent, of the Senior Executive Service. What we know is that if we set that benchmark and report upon it, we can expect to see real change. That’s the advice I have received and that Minister Gallagher has received. When it comes to how we will do it over the immediate term. We are saying to public service agencies now: if a quarter of your existing workforce at the lower to medium levels of the public Service are already from Culturally and Linguistically Diverse backgrounds. We would expect to see about a quarter of them progress through as they progress up through their career. So we hope that over time, we will see us meet that 24 per cent. Which again, is not about just those individuals who might have the fortunate opportunity to serve in the senior levels of the public service. It is actually about increasing productivity in the public service. It is about increasing the quality of the services and policy, which the public service delivers.
TRILLING: So you are hoping people will move up the ranks? What about recruiting people? Because there’s a huge skills shortage at the moment? How do you go about that?
GORMAN: One of the things that has come through on the consultations and it’s really clear, the more you look at it is that we don’t have the modern recruitment processes that we need for the public service. So one of the actions in this plan is to modernise recruitment processes, so that we both look at the whole person and the skills, experiences and talent that they bring to the public service. But also, that we have a more rigorous understanding of what merit is, because merit is something that is ingrained at the core of the public service. We want to make sure that everyone feels like they have been given a merit-based consideration when they put themselves forward. We are in a race for skills, I want to get the best people into public service. I want them to come and do something that is more than what they could achieve anywhere else. You can achieve great things in the public service. We need people to be putting the hand up and applying for those jobs.
TRILLING: Just finally, the Prime Minister has scheduled a National Cabinet meeting for tomorrow to address gendered violence. What will be on the table, you are the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister?
GORMAN: I will leave that for the announcement of First Ministers and the Prime Minister tomorrow. But I think we have seen really strong support from all of those First Ministers to have this discussion. To recognise that the plans that we have put in place are not enough. That the tragic violence and death that we are seeing is something that the community is not accepting. What we want to see out of this meeting is more practical action, more things that will actually make a difference, whether it be here in Melbourne, or anywhere in Australia. We want to see some real change come out of this meeting. I think we have got that really strong buy in from those First Ministers. Also, I want to see us meet those community expectations for us to go further.
TRILLING: Do you think that there will be some moves forward in terms of sharing information about high-risk perpetrators and serial offenders around the country?
GORMAN: Obviously, that has been flagged for consideration. One of the things that will be discussed tomorrow is the outcomes of the Victorian Royal Commission into Family and Domestic Violence, which had some recommendations in this space. We will take advice from subject matter experts to make sure that we do take action as a nation where we look across – and this is what national cabinet is really about – cutting across things that the Commonwealth is responsible for cutting across things the states and territories are responsible for and lifting the standard across the nation. Rather than walking out with a blame game which is sometimes what we used to get out of the Council of Australian Governments. We want to see some real coordinated action, recognising that what we have seen this year is shocking. People who have been working in this space for many years and I was at the Women’s Legal Service this morning talking to them. They recognise this is a time to do some of those things that have been waiting for too long. We are keen to grab this moment.
TRILLING: Patrick Gorman, thanks for your time.
GORMAN: Thanks Jo.
