: The Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese is in the studio, after meeting Debbie Harry online. Good morning, Prime Minister.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning. Good to be with you.
MACDONALD: Look, people are suggesting she could play at your wedding.
PRIME MINISTER: Well she’d be pretty good, wouldn’t she?
MACDONALD: Any plans yet?
PRIME MINISTER: No, no. Well, since the proposal, which was one week ago, of course, on Valentine’s Day.
MACDONALD: Congratulations.
PRIME MINISTER: I’ve been on the road. I’ve been to the Central Coast and Newcastle and Perth. I just got back from Perth last night. So, we’ll take our time and no doubt Jodie will have a lot of ideas and she’ll probably have more influence than I do, frankly.
MACDONALD: Well, you can add Debbie Harry to the mix possibly.
PRIME MINISTER: I’ll put that in the mix. I’m sure she would find that completely acceptable.
MACDONALD: What do you make of the news this morning? We’re just hearing that the CEO of Woolworths, Brad Banducci, has resigned.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, he’s stepped down. People would have seen the Four Corners interview on Monday night.
MACDONALD: Did you?
PRIME MINISTER: No, I was working. I was at a Chinese New Year event in Perth with 950 of my closest friends. So, I didn’t see it, but I’ve seen the reports of it and I’ve seen the excerpt of the bit that was problematic. I want to talk about things other than personalities and what’s very clear is that for customers out there, when they get to the checkout, they should get the lowest prices possible. And when farmers are getting less for their products, I’ve said very clearly, then the price at the checkout should reflect that. And I think people are concerned about competition in the supermarket industry. Woolworths are an important company. They are Australia’s largest employer. They employ 200,000 Australians. And I was concerned at the thought bubble from Peter Dutton saying that there should be a boycott of Woolworths. I thought was a pretty bad idea to say that we should put 200,000 Australians out of work. It’s an important company and I think that it does play an important role, but we need to make sure that competition is appropriate and that’s why we’ve set up reviews, including by the ACCC, by Dr. Craig Emerson and also the Senate inquiry.
MACDONALD: And Allan Fels has said price gouging is alive and well. It’s down to the market power. So, what levers are you willing to pull?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the ACCC are looking at whether, at the moment there’s a voluntary code of conduct, and the question is, does there need to be some mandating there. That’s something that’s being examined.
MACDONALD: Are you up for it?
PRIME MINISTER: I’ve said as a Government, we’re up for the implementation of any recommendations that come through that process.
MACDONALD: George from Marrickville lives near your office on Marrickville Road and is concerned about the changes to flight paths when the new Western Sydney Airport opens. We talked about this last time you were on the phone. What is the Government’s position on this, George would like to know.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, what we’re doing is consulting on flight paths. We want to maximise over water movements and to minimise noise disruption. When you have an airport, I’ve lived in the Inner West my whole life, when you have an airport, there is some disruption. That’s a fact that you can’t get around.
MACDONALD: But you might get more in that area.
PRIME MINISTER: No, I think, look, the responsibility that we have is to make sure that, one, there’s noise sharing and I’ve ensured that. Secondly, that there’s appropriate consultation about the flight paths and that’s underway, thirdly, as well, when I was the Transport Minister, we banned chapter two aircraft. We banned the noisy aircraft. People used to be able to set their watch or their clock by the nine o’clock flight that went over, a freight flight, to New Zealand that was incredibly noisy. We’ve banned those aircraft as well. So, we want to make sure that you have the economic activity that’s important for Sydney. Sydney Airport is the largest employer of workers in my electorate, so it plays an important role. But we want to minimise the impact on people, whether it be around Sydney Airport or around the new Western Sydney Airport when it opens.
MACDONALD: You’re on ABC radio, Sydney. The Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese is here at twelve minutes past nine. Yeah, we wanted you to take some calls and Ash has called in. Ash is from Drummoyne. What was your question for the Prime Minister, Ash?
CALLER: Yes, Mr. Albanese. Look, what worries me is that Peter Dutton has taken the American attitude or the Trump attitude of coming out and just making false statement after false statement and no one fights back. And yourself, I think you’re the one that should be doing it. He comes out and makes a statement about Border Force and he gets away with it and he makes a statement and he gets all over the conservative press and they blow it up and then you just have to sit there and cop it. Why isn’t the attack going back on him?
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks, Ash. Well, we’ll call out the misinformation which is there. Peter Dutton said that there was a cut. There’s in fact been an increase of $470 million, including over $200 million this year. Not only have we said that, but the head of Border Force had said that. The appropriate authorities, the person who leads Operation Sovereign Borders, has said that the comments, without naming Mr. Dutton, are inappropriate. And it is a problem that in politics these days, you can get a lot of misinformation just stated out there. It gets a run and then the rebuttal gets a run as well. But that message has already been out there and I think that politicians need to be more responsible. Peter Dutton, I think though, over a period of time, people are working out that he just says no to everything, that he’ll say anything in the short term in order to have an impact, without having any regard to the facts that are there with any matter. And this is just the latest one. The tax cuts were another one.
MACDONALD: Okay. Well, we have had 40 people, 40 men arrived in the Kimberley. General Campbell, the Defence Chief, has held a meeting with Indonesia’s President elect. Did he seek ongoing support from Indonesia to thwart people smugglers to Australian shores like the one that arrived last week?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, Indonesia plays an important role. We don’t talk about the operational matters because it’s important that we not give a heads up to what is an industry that trades in human beings, the people smuggling industry. And those people who arrived, of course, have been removed and taken to Nauru in accordance with our policy. Not all the people even applied for asylum. They were people who were from the subcontinent. And we need to make sure that we send a strong message that people who come in an unauthorised fashion won’t be settled in Australia. And that is what we have done. Operation Sovereign Borders is in place. It is important that we’re able to have regular migration. We want to see an increase in the number of refugees who are taken by Australia, but taken in a way that’s appropriate.
MACDONALD: Have you increased those Operations Sovereign Borders maritime surveillance or aerial surveillance, since this landing?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I don’t talk about operational matters, but as the people directly involved in running the operation have said, they have never had, it’s the largest support they’ve had since this began in 2015.
MACDONALD: 1300 222 702 is the number. If you’d like to ask the Prime Minister a question at 16 minutes past nine on ABC Radio Sydney. Are we going to have a federal election this year? There’s an all staff memo leaked from your office this morning, written by your Chief of Staff calling it the election year. I know there’s elections in Tasmania and Queensland, the ACT and Northern Territory and much of the world, but are you committed to serving a full term till next year?
PRIME MINISTER: Absolutely, we are. This is a bit of a beat up. If you look at the memo that came from my Chief of Staff, it’s about someone joining my staff in March. And effectively, once we get through the May Budget, we expect to have a Budget next year in March as well, and the term ends in May next year.
MACDONALD. So, you’re going to go till May next year?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I’ve said that three year terms are too short, in my view, and to talk about an election year, essentially, post Budget, we will be in the year lead up to an election. And that’s part of the problem in this country, I think, is that you have the first year after an election and then you have that middle year and then you’re in election year, which is what we will be in.
MACDONALD. So, you want four year terms?
PRIME MINISTER: I do, but it’s been tried twice at referendums and we know that referendums are difficult to carry in this country.
MACDONALD: Well you do know that this year, don’t you, after that?
PRIME MINISTER: Yes, we do, because just like some of the misinformation that was around, there was misinformation about, “oh, it’ll be terrible, politicians will be here for even longer and it’s a grab for power,” it’s actually common sense. Every state and territory has four year terms, but we don’t federally.
MACDONALD: It’s not happening here. I want to talk about Julian Assange in just a moment, but Tim’s called in from Manly for a question for Anthony Albanese. Hi, Tim.
CALLER: Hi, how are you, going?
MACDONALD: Good.
CALLER: Hello, Prime Minister.
PRIME MINISTER: Hi.
CALLER: I’ll make this as quick as possible. What I want to know is why the ATO, the tax department, is not cracking down on short term holiday rentals, which cover holiday rentals and AirBnbs, where they are allowed to claim tax deductions for the full year on the property when they’re only renting the property out for a fraction of the year. It’s an obvious and easy thing to fix, to get the tax department to make sure that people are only claiming costs for the time they rent it out, as opposed to getting a massive deduction against their salaries or their wages or other income, and it would have an immediate effect, not a complete effect, but an immediate effect about changing the economics for short term rentals, which would have the effect of bringing properties back onto the rental market and would help with the, help with the short term rental problems that we’ve got.
MACDONALD: Yeah, the rental crisis, which we’re going to talk about later on in the show. Prime Minister?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, thanks very much for what is a very considered question. We have increased resources for the Australian Tax Office to ensure compliance, but I will raise with the Tax Commissioner the issue that you’ve put forward in a very practical way.
MACDONALD: But you can do it with negative gearing even if you’re Airbnbing and short term renting? You can still negative gear, which is a tax break.
PRIME MINISTER: Indeed, but I will put forward because obviously, if you’re Airbnbing then you are engaged in investment, you’re producing a return and that’s why that would apply. But the specifics that have been asked there. Look, I will raise that with the Tax Commissioner. I’m not in a position to determine tax policy during ABC talkback here in Sydney, but you’ve raised it in a really considered way and I’ll forward that on.
MACDONALD: All right, thanks so much for your question, Tim. I have got questions coming in on the text line about immigration too, and tax breaks that are causing housing stress. And we did ask you about this last time you were here, the Greens saying we should get rid of negative gearing. Have you done some modelling? Would you perhaps take away the capital gains tax discount that applies?
PRIME MINISTER: No, we haven’t. What we are concerned about is supply. That’s the key. And yesterday in Perth we did, through our National Housing Infrastructure Facility, we launched a new development there for over 230 units that will be available for either social housing or affordable housing for essential workers. We have our Help to Buy Scheme before the Senate, that will be before the Senate, where the Greens will have to take a position of whether they support getting more people into homeownership.
MACDONALD: But don’t those sort of schemes just increase the costs because more people have a bit more money from the government, so that increases the price to buy?
PRIME MINISTER: No, they don’t because of what it’s aimed at, with a limit depending upon what city or region the home is available for. And because it is a shared equity scheme, so that if a home or a unit is worth a million dollars, then essentially if it’s new, up to forty per cent can be owned by the government and then sold back into the system. It’s been very effective in places like Western Australia, where it’s been in place for some time. In NSW and Victoria, it’s been effective as well, it hasn’t been around for as long. But that’s just one of the measures on top of our Social Housing Accelerator, on top of our Build to Rent tax incentive, which we’ve already put in place in last year’s Budget, that will see between 150 and 250,000 additional private rental dwellings built over coming years.
MACDONALD: Paul Keating’s on the front page of the Financial Review this morning to mark his 80th birthday. He says Australian politicians, so this possibly may include you, are too timid and that Joe Biden is too infirm to run again.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, happy birthday to Paul. And Paul has always been known for his forward leaning comments. I haven’t seen this particular interview, but I’d be surprised if Paul Keating ever did an interview without getting a headline. President Biden is doing, in my view, a great job there in the United States. He’s someone who I have had the privilege of sitting around a cabinet table with him and with his defence secretary and his foreign secretary and his commerce secretary and his climate secretary, John Kerry, and his vice president, Kamala Harris. He’s someone who is very much on top of his brief. He’s someone who has done an extraordinary job in job creation and industry development in the United States. And he’s someone who’s an important relationship for Australia.
MACDONALD: And he was still sharp and on?
PRIME MINISTER: Absolutely. Absolutely he was. And if you look at the role that he’s played in international politics as well, he has been, I think, real leader through the Quad, through the AUKUS arrangements that were put in place as well. He managed to corral the Congress and the Senate there in the US to get the legislation that we needed passed. And he’s someone who has a good relationship with Australia. So, I’ve had the firsthand knowledge of sitting down with President Biden, and he’s someone I spent six hours with during my state visit there last year.
MACDONALD: So still sharp as you see it.
PRIME MINISTER: Absolutely.
MACDONALD: Have you been on the phone to him about Julian Assange? We’re about to talk about Geoffrey Robinson, who once represented Julian Assange. Julian Assange making his sort of last ditch effort to avoid extradition to the US. Have you talked to Joe Biden about this?
PRIME MINISTER: I have raised at the highest levels with the United States and the United Kingdom, Mr. Assange’s case. I have put the view very clearly, privately, as I have publicly, that enough is enough. It’s time Julian Assange was brought home. I’ve engaged with his legal team on a regular basis as well, on a strategy to try to get through this and come out the other side in Mr. Assange’s interest.
MACDONALD: And what’s the US setback?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we’re engaging diplomatically to try to achieve an outcome rather than try to achieve a headline. So, I don’t talk about the private conversations that I have with other leaders in person. I can just confirm that I certainly have raised it because that has been the subject of discussion, including with President Biden when we were there and did a press conference.
MACDONALD: It seems he’s not well, though. If things don’t go his way in this case, will Australia intervene?
PRIME MINISTER: Well we, of course, have to engage diplomatically. It’s a legal process in another country. So that is why, both with the US and the UK, we have to engage diplomatically. We certainly have done so. The resolution that was passed in the House of Representatives last week was very clear as well. And a majority, certainly all of the Labor MPs and I think all of the crossbenches as well voted, as well as at least one Liberal.
MACDONALD: A couple.
PRIME MINISTER: I think there was just one Liberal, Bridget Archer, to her great credit.
MACDONALD: She crossed the floor again.
PRIME MINISTER: It’s important that Australian citizens be looked after. If you look at our record, whether it’s Cheng Lei in China, Sean Turnell in Myanmar, and other cases from Vietnam. We have, since I’ve been Prime Minister, been very successful at making representations on behalf of Australians.
MACDONALD: All right, well, you started by talking to Debbie Harry with us today. You’re going to Taylor Swift on Friday. I see there’s some old footage of you shaking it off at Annandale Public School.
PRIME MINISTER: If you want to get kids up and dancing at a primary school, just put on Shake It Off. And all of the young girls, but also the young boys, they know every word.
MACDONALD: They do, and you’ll be singing along. Do you have any friendship bracelets yet? Are you hoping to get some on the night?
PRIME MINISTER: I’ve got a couple.
MACDONALD: Who made you those?
PRIME MINISTER: They were given to me by Kate Richie, I’ve got to say, at an earlier interview, sorry you asked.
MACDONALD: Well, Craig Reucassel’s got one on your desk. He can add to that, so you can have the one he made for me. How about that? You can add to them as you go today. And I understand you’re going to head to your school, your old school. It’s going co-ed next year.
PRIME MINISTER: It is. It’s a good thing they’ve made that decision.
MACDONALD: Would you have liked girls when you were there at the school? St Mary’s.
PRIME MINISTER: I think there’s something healthy about boys and girls not being separated until they hit uni is my own personal view. My son went to a co-ed school, went through the entire system at Dully and what’s now known as Sydney Secondary College, but to me as Leichardt High and Glebe High. And I think that from my recollection, I remember that there would be a bit of craziness when we’d have school dances with St Bridget’s at Marrickville or Holy Cross at Woollahra, and that probably wasn’t the ideal. It’s good to learn –
MACDONALD: Calms the craziness right if they are co-ed all the time.
PRIME MINISTER: I think that is right. And my son has friends, both young men and young women now, now that he’s in his early 20s, who he went through school with, and that’s fantastic.
MACDONALD: All right well, have a good day, have a good time at Taylor Swift and thanks so much for coming in this morning on ABC Radio Sydney. We appreciate it.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much. And thanks for the chance to chat with Debbie. That was a bit of a highlight of my day.
MACDONALD: I know. First album I bought and I’ve still got it on vinyl. You still got Parallel Lines?
PRIME MINISTER: I do indeed.
MACDONALD: You’ve got a good range of musical tastes there, from Taylor Swift to Blondie and all sorts of music that you’re into. Thanks so much for coming in today.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much.
