Australia-United Kingdom Ministerial Consultations

UK Foreign Secretary, Yvette Cooper: Welcome, everyone, it’s been great today to welcome Penny and Richard to join John and I am here at Lancaster House, and especially for us, as two Yorkshire MPs recall that, in fact, this building was originally called York House. So, we’ve done a takeover here today and today’s AUKMIN has been the chance for us, as great friends from opposite corners of the world, to discuss global security and economic challenges. And it is a reflection of a very deep and longstanding friendship and partnership between the UK and Australia, but it’s also a reflection of our shared interests and our shared values, our shared commitment to security, to multilateral cooperation, and also to the rule of law that shapes how we navigate those challenges together today. And in a more dangerous and unpredictable world, those deep and stable partnerships are the trust that underpins our relationship matters more than ever, and this UK-Australia partnership is really a point of constancy and strength amidst this world of turbulence.

So, we have today, at a time when global security faces pressures, we have discussed latest developments, Russia’s war on Ukraine, and supporting Ukraine. We’ve discussed too, how Euro-Atlantic security and Indo-Pacific security are closely linked in terms of the security threats in the Indo-Pacific, and how will we deepen our cooperation there too, and our deep and historic relationship that has resulted in the AUKUS program, our most strategically significant defence partnership in a generation where, with the US, we commit to an Indo-Pacific region that is open, stable, and free from coercion. And of course, we have discussed how the Strait of Hormuz, the chokehold on the global economy is affecting the UK and Australian economies at opposite sides of the world, and our shared interest in the reopening of the Strait, and instability and insecurity in the Middle East as well. And of course, at a time when here in Europe we have seen the end of the post-Cold War peace dividend, which for decades European countries took for granted. That’s why the UK is also already increasing our defence spending and needs to go further as part of deterring threats and keeping our country safe. But our defence partnership also underpins our economic partnerships, our free trade agreement, and also some of the discussions as well that we have had today on the future, not just our economic, but also our security cooperation, and the future on collaboration on AI, collaboration on critical minerals, and collaboration on technological security more widely, as well. At a time of instability and insecurity, strong partnerships matter, determined diplomacy matters, and agile alliances matter too. It is these partnerships that we build across the world, and particularly this values-driven and interest-driven partnership between our two countries, that is what makes us stronger at home. Let me turn to Richard, oh, to Penny, sorry.

Foreign Minister, Penny Wong: Thanks very much, Yvette. Can I begin by thanking you and John for welcoming us so warmly to this wonderful venue, and to the United Kingdom, but more importantly, for the openness and clarity of our discussions today. This relationship is grounded in our shared history, shaped by

shared values and driven by shared interests. And importantly, what we are collectively doing is transforming it to lead the most, complex strategic circumstances the world has faced since the end of World War II. So, obviously, today we discussed those challenges that we are working to confront now, but also those challenges which will shape the century ahead. We reaffirmed our unwavering support for Ukraine in the face of Russia’s unjustified invasion. We will stand with Ukraine, and we will continue to do so for as long as it is attacked. On the Middle East, the developments today demonstrate the fragile nature of the ceasefire. Australia continues to support efforts for a negotiated end to the war. We know the ceasefire is fragile, but it must hold and it must continue to be strengthened. Crucially, we all want to see the Strait of Hormuz open, and freedom of navigation restored and we thank the United Kingdom for its leadership there. Australia remains committed to playing our role. However, of course, it is in the Indo-Pacific where the future of the world is being reshaped, contest is accelerating, and we are working harder together to avert conflict and to assure peace.

We welcome the United Kingdom’s continued and deepening engagement in our region. And at the heart of our defence cooperation is AUKUS, a partnership that is built to contribute to peace and stability in our region and it underpins decades of work between us. Foreign Secretary Cooper has spoken of the UK’s ambitious foreign policy agenda as determined diplomacy, and that determined diplomacy, strengthening, diversifying partnerships, must also involve economic relationships. And today we agree to deepen our work to mobilise investment into Southeast Asia, a region on track to be the fourth largest economy by 2040. We’re bolstering economic resilience by working together more closely on critical minerals, and we welcome the United Kingdom’s support for climate resilience in the Pacific. We have both committed to new funding to strengthen maritime security across Southeast Asia.

I said at the outset that ours is a partnership grounded in our values. We work to protect who we are, we work to protect our democracies, and we work to protect our peoples. And the outcomes of these discussions, which include the countering of hybrid threats, cooperating to work together to prevent gender violence, to improve the safety and standards around artificial intelligence are just a small set of examples of how we do so. So, I’ll close by saying again to Yvette, to John, thank you so much for our discussions and for the trust that has been built between us. It’s a long, ambitious partnership, I think today we have made it more so. We take the world as it is, but together we work to shape it for the better. Thank you.

UK Defence Secretary, John Healey: Thank you. This is my third AUKMIN, and this is a regular opportunity for Australia and the UK to reinforce our partnership and plan ahead, and it’s a particular pleasure for Yvette and I to welcome our good friends Penny and Richard. Welcome to London, welcome to Lancaster House and thank you for your visit. Since we met 12 months ago, the world has changed – more dangerous, more uncertain. The Iran war is changing the Middle East. It’s hitting our people at home. Putin’s aggression is increasing. And the US is demanding nations, whether they’re in the Indo-Pacific or in the Euro-Atlantic, that we step up. This demands us to respond. To step up ourselves, but also to step up cooperation with our closest partners. That’s what we’ve been doing today. And there are no two countries closer in our mindset, in our values than Australia and the UK.

We know we face shared threats, we know that Euro-Atlantic security is indivisible from Indo-Pacific security, and we know that our own security depends on working together. We do this in a number of ways, including through AUKUS – that’s the US, UK, and Australia. This is one of our most significant partnerships, perhaps the most significant partnerships since NATO. Richard and I, two weeks ago, were together in Singapore with Pete Hegseth, and we signed a breakthrough agreement, a first ever project under Pillar Two of AUKUS. We will produce together sensors and weapons for our undersea drones that can be used by all three nations. We will have those in the hands of our war fighters from next year. And next year we will also cut steel in Barrow for our first AUKUS submarine with the engines already in build in Derby. So, both as AUKUS partners and as bilateral partners, UK and Australia, we’re delivering together for our countries’ security. We’re delivering together for global stability, and we’re delivering good jobs and growth in both our countries. And together with other nations, we work together. We work together to support Ukraine, Richard and I will be together again next week for the meeting of the Ukraine Defence Contact Group. We work together with other nations, and I welcome and thank Australia for their contribution to the multinational mission for the Strait of Hormuz. Today we agreed new cooperation on radar technology, the Australian CEA Technologies has some of the very best radar technology anywhere in the world. We want to test that with our UK forces, we want to help develop that with Australia, we want to help produce that so it can be deployed more widely. Today, we’ve also agreed a new cooperation on critical minerals like antimony and gallium, which are essential as a foundation for modern defence and military capability. We signed a statement together, which is the first ever critical minerals deal for either of our defence departments, as defence departments, and I’m proud that we’ve done that, and we will develop that with Australia.

This is a partnership which is not just enduring, it is evolving. By working together, we can ensure that our armed forces have what they need to stay ahead of our adversaries, now and in the future. And when we work together, Australia and the UK, we’re stronger, we are more secure, and we are better prepared for that future. Thank you.

Deputy Prime Minister, Richard Marles: Well, can I add my thanks to Yvette and John for hosting us at this remarkable venue for this year’s AUKMIN. Today’s discussion happens against a backdrop of an increasingly challenging and volatile world. We see, with a significant closure of the Strait of Hormuz, a challenge to freedom of navigation and the rules-based order. We continue to see the war in Ukraine and Ukraine’s brave resistance to Russia’s immoral invasion of Ukraine, which in turn puts on trial the rules-based order in that conflict. And we also see the rules-based order be placed under pressure in the Indo-Pacific. We are very grateful for the UK’s leadership. We are grateful for the UK’s leadership in the support of Ukraine. We are very much grateful for the UK’s leadership, along with France, in establishing the Multinational Maritime Mission in respect of the Strait of Hormuz. Australia will be a part of that mission. We have committed to contributing an E-7 Wedgetail to that mission, and we will continue to work with both the UK and France about how else we can make further contributions to that mission when conditions allow.

As John said, 11 days ago, John and I were in Singapore with Secretary of War Pete Hegseth at this year’s annual AUKUS Defence Ministers’ Meeting. Pillar One, submarines, is happening at a pace. It is on track. Submarine Rotational Force‑West will begin at HMAS Stirling, south of Perth, next year. And earlier this year, we were really pleased to have HMS Anson, the UK Astute class submarine, undertake a significant maintenance package at HMAS Stirling. And the future opportunity for the UK to use the Submarine Rotational Force‑West will greatly add to both deterrence and balance in the Indo-Pacific. In respect of the construction of the SSN‑AUKUS, the Osborne Naval Shipyard is on track and as John has just said, we will see the cutting of steel here in the UK next year for the building of the first UK SSN‑AUKUS. As John also mentioned, at our meeting we really achieved a milestone in relation to Pillar Two by committing to a signature project: advanced payloads for undersea uncrewed vessels, which is so important in terms of the underwater domain. But what’s really significant is that this is a commitment which has firm timelines associated with it, we will have capability into the hands of the war fighter next year. But there is also a significant commitment of money from all three countries to that, and we look forward to the development of other signature projects under AUKUS in the future.

We have also announced today that our two governments have signed an agreement in respect of the potential use of the Active Electronic Scan Array radar, which is developed by CEA in Australia. This is technology of the highest order. It is the best phased array radar that exists in the world today. It is on a whole lot of Australian platforms, but it’s also being exported to the United States and the significance of the agreement that has been signed by our two governments is that it opens up the opportunity for the second export of this technology, which in turn gives rise to a real prospect for much greater markets here for this technology. CEA is a proud Australian company, it employs around 600 people around the nation, based in Canberra, and we’re really excited about this opportunity, but it is also a really good example of Australia and the UK working so closely together in terms of the development of an advanced technology. As John said, we’ve also signed a statement of intent in respect of critical minerals, but specifically in relation to defence. This is the first time we have done this at a defence level. And what this will see is our two governments cooperating closely on not only the extraction of critical minerals, but also their downstream processing. These are so important in terms of providing the necessary materials for critical defence technologies, and it’s absolutely essential that we have safe and secure supply chains which are providing these materials for these really significant defence technologies, and we are delighted to be able to sign this statement of intent between our two governments today.

Finally, can I say, we are so grateful for our relationship with the United Kingdom. As Yvette, John and Penny have said, ours is a relationship which is underpinned by shared values, by a shared strategic alignment, but it’s very much underpinned by absolute trust, which in today’s world is so profoundly important. And that exists across the government, but it very much exists amongst the four of us, and I think our four personal relationships are very much emblematic of the depth of the relationship between our two countries.

Foreign Secretary Cooper:Thank you very much. We have questions to take, starting with Deborah Haynes from Sky News.

Journalist: Thank you – the four of you. I’m going to ask questions to everyone, if that’s okay. And for the Foreign Secretary; after the NATO Foreign Minister’s meeting last month, you came out and you delivered some really strong words about the need for the UK to do much more to, in terms of defence spending, to protect its citizens. Yet since then, we still haven’t seen the Defence Investment Planning Public Accounts Committee have said that the delay has left this country less safe and the UK less credible internationally. And as Foreign Secretary, are you finding when you interact with your counterparts in the world stage that the UK is deemed less credible, and how can the UK be a genuine global power if it only aims to lift defence spending to 3.5% of GDP by 2035? For the Defence Secretary, I’m sorry to ask about the Defence Investment Plan, but you can understand why. Are you willing to accept anything less than an additional 18 billion pounds over four years as part of the extra money from the Treasury to get this Defence Investment Plan over the line and I just asked about this 3.5% target, which is the NATO one, but the government has promised to lift defence spending to 3% of GDP within the next Parliament, which is very vague. How important is it, or would you like to see a much clearer specification and timeline for that 3% target, please? And for the Australian Defence and Foreign Ministers – given political uncertainty in this country, it may well be that come next year, you’re going to be dealing with two different ministers in our foreign and defence roles. How worried are you about inconsistency when it comes to UK defence and foreign policy? And do you think the UK has a credibility problem, given these repeated delays in the plan to invest in our defences at such a critical time?

Foreign Secretary Cooper: So let me start, Deborah, and bring the others in. We have already seen the biggest increase in defence spending since the Cold War, under this government. Since the election, that’s what we’ve done, exactly because we believe in strengthening our defence in the face of unprecedented global insecurity and instability, and at a time when, you know, really for very many years, I think many European countries took for granted the post-Cold War peace dividend, that dividend has gone. It has gone completely. And that’s why we have to make sure that we can respond to changing threats, both immediate and also across the world as well. And that is exactly what we’re doing. It’s also why we need to go further, and why we’ve been clear about the need to go further. And it’s also what I see in talking to NATO politicians, talking to foreign ministers, is a recognition of the work and the leadership that the UK has shown around the Coalition of the Willing, and the support, the direct support for the Ukraine. For example, the work that we are doing with Norway on these threats to the High North. And for example, this AUKUS partnership, which is about the Indo-Pacific and about our broader security across the world, because we know it is these global threats that impacts on us and our safety and security at home. So, I think the role that the UK has long played on defence and on both partnerships and recognising the strength in those partnerships, it remains as enduring as ever. Let me pass to John.

Defence Secretary Healey: Deborah, you are a one woman press conference [inaudible]. I’m not going to comment on figures, the Prime Minister knows what defence of the nation needs, he’s set to make his announcements soon. On 3.5% of GDP by 2035, that was the commitment that the Prime Minister made for this nation, alongside 31 other NATO nations last year at the summit. The UK has always met its NATO commitments, and it will continue to do so. We will meet that commitment.

Foreign Minister Wong: I was asked about the UK’s voice in the world, and what I will say is that the United Kingdom speaks with authority and clarity, and that we are grateful for the consistency that this country brings, not only to the AUKMIN discussions but to discussions in so many fora around the world. In terms of my two friends who are here, what I would say is they consistently demonstrate leadership, determination, and a desire to deliver outcomes for the British people and for your country.

Deputy Prime Minister Marles: Yeah, I think I’d simply- obviously the defence spending of a country is a matter for it, but we acknowledge that we’ve seen increases in defence spending from the UK. When we said in our opening comments that we are grateful for the UK’s leadership, we really mean it. I mean, we have seen- take the Multinational Maritime Mission, for example. In a pretty challenging circumstance, we are deeply grateful for the UK’s leadership in that moment. It is actually the means by which we will be able to make a contribution, as our country, we hope very much in terms of maintaining freedom of navigation, and ultimately we hope to see an opening of the Strait of Hormuz. The UK is a country which stands for the global rules-based order. For a country like Australia, that rules-based order is profoundly important because it gives us agency, and we deeply appreciate the position that the UK has taken and actually, I think, on defence, and strategic, and foreign policy the UK has been remarkably consistent. So all the comments that we made at the outset around how much we appreciate UK leadership are sincerely and deeply meant.

Journalist: A question for each of the foreign ministers, please. In the last hour, Donald Trump’s been speaking from the Oval Office and elaborating on what he meant by ‘Iran will pay the price’ – he said: ‘We’ll be attacking them very hard, attacking them very hard’. The question was on resuming bombing, he said ‘yes, Americans get real reactions to that’. And, secondly, in these times of global volatility and conflict, and especially after the US launched the war on Iran without telling allies, how much of your discussion today is centred under the liability of the US now as an ally, I expect you’ll say that the relationships in the US are solid and that agreements are ironclad, but wouldn’t it be naive not to be thinking and planning ahead that some situations we might need to face without Trump Administration?

Foreign Secretary Cooper: So, just to respond to that, so we know that negotiations have been underway for some time between the US and Iran, so I’m not going to comment on sort of the discussion, the commentary, around those negotiations, because we badly want those negotiations to reach a successful conclusion that will mean the full reopening of the Strait of Hormuz. The move from a ceasefire to a long-term settlement with regional security, and also, of course, ensuring that Iran can never get a nuclear weapon. Those discussions are underway at the moment, and that’s obviously – we want to see those conclude. A particularly important thing that we have talked about as part of that, is restoring full freedom of navigation to the Strait. There’s been discussions at an early stage on whether there will be tolls introduced in the Strait of Hormuz, and we have been very clear that it is, as part of the International Law of the Seas, of maritime freedoms that are crucial for the UK as a country, also crucial for Australia, and we have a shared interest in maritime freedom, and it’s why Penny, at some, I think, ungodly hour of the night, joined a meeting that we held of 40 different countries from around the world to build that consensus around maintaining freedom of navigation as part of that and we need to ensure that is part of what goes forward for the global economy, because this is also about those long-term underpinning principles as well. In terms of the relationship with the US, the whole AUKUS agreement is all about that three-way partnership between the UK, the US, and Australia. Within its part in NATO, clearly what the US has made clear is that Europe needs to play a stronger role within NATO. Actually, we agree with that. We believe that Europe needs to play a stronger role within NATO. That’s exactly why we are increasing our defence spending. That’s exactly why we and other European countries are stepping up as part of NATO, so it is possible for that relationship to change as part of that, but also still to be strong partners within NATO, and to still maintain that strong security alliance, and of course for us, we are also part of the Five Eyes Alliance, and that intelligence and security alliance that is immensely important.

Foreign Minister Wong: Well, I think Yvette’s responded on the Middle East, the point I made in the opening was Australia wants to see a negotiated end to this war. We all understand the extent to which the conflict is not only costing – causing damage and costing lives, but is having an outsized effect on the global energy markets, which is affecting all of our people. In relation to the US, you will have heard me say on a number of occasions, yes, the United States is our closest ally, and it’s our principal strategic partner, and we work very closely together. You will also have heard me say that we, it is obvious, that the role that the United States plays in the world, and how President Trump and his administration envisions that role is different. And we know that we cannot just rely on one partner, we have to build more partnerships, and we have to reimagine and modernise the partnerships with traditional powers, so we see AUKMIN and the work we have done in this, very much in that vein.

Journalist: Thank you, Foreign Secretary. Firstly to you, the Chancellor suggested higher defence spending might mean higher taxes. The Prime Minister dodged questions about this earlier today. Do Labour MPs and the public just need to accept this, and that cuts need to be made to keep us safe? And secondly, if I may, are you fearful of the Trump administration getting involved in the unrest in Belfast? And to the Defence Secretary, what’s your response to the speaker saying publishing the Defence Investment Plan on a Friday will be appalling and a kick in the face for parliamentarians, do you agree? Is that part of reason it is being delayed from Friday? And to Deputy Prime Minister Marles, Ministers are keen to copy over here your social media ban in some way, do you have any advice for them? What can we learn from that? And finally, to Minister Wong, how does the lack of clarity over the Defence Investment Plan and defence spending look to you from Australia and rest of the world?

Foreign Minister Wong: Shouldn’t it be the other way around, Richard and I?

Journalist: Sure, yes.

Foreign Secretary Cooper: So, the I think, as John’s already said, there’s been a number of discussions about the Defence Investment Plan. I think there is a long-term issue about the security for us, and also for, as we’ve seen across European allies, and we’ve seen countries across the world, about needing to strengthen security, and that security applies to our security thinking in terms of defence, but also security in terms of our economic security as well. It’s why we have partnerships around critical minerals, it’s why we’re also talking about AI security as well. In terms of the issues around what’s happened in Belfast, that attack was appalling and all of us are thinking of the victim and victim’s family, and also respecting the views of the victim’s family, and also we fully support the – not just by the Prime Minister, the Northern Ireland Secretary, but also the joint statement by all of Northern Ireland’s political leaders, as well, being clear, there is no justification for the kinds of attacks on people in their homes, or the sort of abuse and threats that we have seen, and it’s really important that communities come together in the face of, when terrible crimes take place, for communities to come together in its response to those crimes.

Defence Secretary Healey: Yvette and I have been parliamentarians together for nearly 30 years, we’re parliamentarians first, ministers second, and privileged to be ministers. The speaker asserts the right of parliament, parliament is there for people and when we publish really significant reports from Defence, like the Defence Investment Plan, we respect parliament.

Foreign Minister Wong: I think you asked me a question which I really feel like I answered in response to a different question about the credibility of the United Kingdom and the consistency of their position, and obviously their parliamentary and budgetary processes are theirs, just as ours are ours.

Deputy Prime Minister Marles: Well, I mean, in terms of – we’re very proud of the steps we’ve taken in relation to social media. We come to this from the perspective of wanting to make sure that every child should have the opportunity to grow up without having all the forces, and in many cases the malevolent forces, which people are exposed to through social media, and we see it as a really significant step that we’ve taken to enabling Australian kids to have their childhood. We’ve spoken about that and internationally, of course, it is a matter for what other countries do, but we feel really confident about the position that we’ve taken. It’s been received really well in Australia and we think it is going to make a major difference, as I say, in terms of enabling kids to have their childhood, but also addressing a whole lot of adolescent mental health conditions, which, since the advent of social media, we’ve really seen take off. So it’s an important reform. We’re very happy to share our experiences with other countries around the world, but obviously these are decisions other countries are going to make themselves.

Foreign Secretary Cooper: We’re actually going to be discussing this issue and social media issues with children, and also online safety more widely tomorrow. Penny and I will be joined by Anita Anand, the Canadian Foreign Minister. We have trilateral meetings to discuss a range of things, it is our Australia, Britain, Canada, our ABC to trilateral tomorrow.

Journalist:For both the Defence Secretary and Defence Minister, Mr Marles said the British submarines will be contributing to deterrence that rotate through Perth as part of SRF-West, Submarine Rotation Force‑West. At the moment, though, five British Attack class submarines are reportedly all unable to go to sea, so it doesn’t deter anyone at the moment. Production delays and bottlenecks are well known in the UK and the US programs. It’s very hard to get submarines at sea at the moment, it seems like anywhere. How can you stand here with credibility and say all these setbacks, all these problems we’ve had with submarine programs are going to magically disappear, and everything’s going to be all fine to build something that’s going to happen across three countries? Does the US decision to sell Australia second-hand submarines perhaps make it easier for Britain to be cut out of the program down the track? And do you both sort of concede that neither government- any of the three governments have done a very good job selling the benefits of AUKUS, both strategically and industrially?

Deputy Prime Minister Marles: Thank you for the question. Andrew, since AUKUS was announced, I’ve been, we’ve all been answering questions from people who have sought to place doubts about the future progress of AUKUS. And all I would simply- I mean, I will give you an answer about the fact that we are really confident about his trajectory, but actually we’re now in a position to be able to point to what has happened over the last few years to demonstrate that. What I’m really aware of is that whatever answer I give here, it’s actually our track record and the facts that we establish on the ground which is going to answer that question in history and we’re answering, we actually are answering it. I mean, you go to HMAS Stirling right now, facilities are being built at a pace such that Submarine Rotational Force‑West will be able to commence from next year. We had all sorts of doubts about whether or not the United States would come to the party in relation to the supply of Virginia class submarines, we are creating the space in terms of increased production rates in the United States, in terms of increased sustainment rates with the Australians, the 200 Australians who, on this day, are at Pearl Harbor helping to get US Virginia class submarines out to sea for the US Navy, along with the 200 Australian submariners who are working upon US Virginia Class submarines, getting the critical experience that they need to be able to operate our future Australian flagged Virginia class submarines – and all of that is happening as planned. And we will, I am very confident, see the transfer of US Virginia class submarines to Australia in the early 2030s as planned. In terms of the building of SSN‑AUKUS, again, you have been to the Osborne Naval Shipyard and you can see what is going on right now in terms of the building of the Skills and Training Academy, very much modelled on BAE’s facility at Barrow here in the UK. You can see right now what’s going on in terms of the construction of the Submarine Construction Yard, again, happening right now. There’s a thousand people in Australia on this day who are working on AUKUS, and the ramp up is all happening. So, I mean, you asked the question about how do we stand with confidence about its future? Well, because of what we’ve done over the course of the last few years, and the fact that what we see now with AUKUS is, across all three countries we have seen changes in government since AUKUS was first established, and yet there is an absolute commitment being expressed by all three countries to the pursuit of AUKUS. And the reason for that is because it fundamentally is in the national strategic interests of the United Kingdom, the United States and Australia, and all of that gives us a sense of confidence that we will be able to deliver this. Now, not for a moment do I stand here and say there are not challenges. Of course there are challenges. I mean, this is the single biggest industrial project in Australia’s history. This represents the biggest leap in our military capability since the establishment of the Navy. Of course there are going to be challenges, but we are meeting the challenges, and it is happening, and there is a track record which, if you were to do nothing other than report on that and take your lead on that about the future, it would give a very positive trajectory about where we’re going.

Defence Secretary Healey: We were really proud recently when HMS Anson didn’t just berth in Perth, but it undertook a significant maintenance program while it was there – part of the Submarine Rotational Force‑West, part of AUKUS, part of the important partnership that we discussed in other respects with the US, Australia, and the UK. As far as future sovereign operations go, I’m clearly not going to comment on that but let me just say this in response to part of the challenge in your question. Richard has just talked about being a new government. We’ve come into government and we saw 14 years in the UK where British military and armed forces were hollowed out and unfunded. Not my description, but the description of one of my predecessors in the last government. And you don’t turn that around, you don’t fix that overnight. But with submarines it’s a personal priority for me, it’s a personal priority for the new First Sea Lord to raise the levels, and pace, and effectiveness of our maintenance program, to raise the level of infrastructure that allows that maintenance to be better. And in this parliament alone you’ve seen us commit 6 billion pounds to our submarine building program. We’ve already seen more than a thousand extra jobs since the election in Barrow on the shipyard, and that investment is to increase productivity, and it is to enhance and expand the capacity to produce – and it is, and it’s there together to speed up the rate at which we can build new submarines. And next year you will see the steel cut – steel, by the way, in part made in Sheffield – you’ll see the steel cut, the first steel cut on the first SSN‑AUKUS submarine. This is a program that will become a joint submarine force with Australia and the US. Nothing is more profound than that partnership between our two nations, nothing is more important than the conversation between us as ministers, AUKMIN ministers, than that conversation.

Foreign Minister Wong: If I may add briefly, AUKUS is ambitious and AUKUS is challenging, but it is also critical to ensuring our sovereignty. So, this is not an academic exercise or a theoretical procurement exercise. It is the response to the central question, which is, how do we secure capability for Australia that is critical to assuring our sovereignty and ensuring peace in a much more contested region. And that is why this government and these governments are so determined to deliver it.