Prime Minister, thanks for your time. So, why have you made this call to continue the fuel excise relief?
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: We know that families are still under pressure, and we also know that the impact of this conflict on the other side of the world will have a long economic tail to it, so there’s still some uncertainty that oil prices come down this week. We want to see that flow through, but it will take some time. So, what we’re determined to do is to step down the relief on excise from 32 cents, it will step down by half to 16 cents for the month of July up until 2 August, and will also consequentially decrease by 16 cents the heavy vehicle road user charge, because that’s important for our trucking industry as well. This will enable some certainty going forward, and for confidence to remain in the system.
KIERAN GILBERT: So, is it to avoid a rush at the petrol stations, this sort of graduated removal? Is it to avoid a rush on supply, basically.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, a step down will ensure certainty. We have worked very hard to ensure there is now more petrol, more diesel, and more jet fuel in Australia than there was on the 28th of February when this conflict began, and that’s because of the work that we’ve done through Export Finance Australia, working with the private sector to ensure that that supply has continued, but work with our partners, particularly in Southeast Asia, to ensure that supply has flowed through.
KIERAN GILBERT: You don’t want to pull the excise relief in one fell swoop?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that’s right, a step down is a sensible thing to do. We’ve also ensured, of course, hundreds of thousands of extra tonnes of fertiliser, so we’ve provided that certainty for the agricultural sector, and you would remember, Kieran, that prior to Easter there were demands from the three right wing parties to say that it was certain that there would be restrictions placed on petrol that was adding to the trauma out there that people were feeling that uncertainty that anxiousness we understood that we have cut the fuel excise by 32 cents, that’s made a difference to people’s hip pockets.
KIERAN GILBERT: Will the states come on board with this extension, because I know the states have also contributed over the past three months?
PRIME MINISTER: They have by not receiving a GST windfall gain, so I’ve got National Cabinet meeting on Monday, and I’ve already had discussions with the Chair of the Council of Federation, Premier Roger Cook, to inform him that we’ll take the proposal, and I’m confident that the states will, just as they did the right thing beforehand, will step down accordingly.
KIERAN GILBERT: Are you open to extending it again? You’ve extended it one month, we know. While we hope the Iran deal holds, it might flare again.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, this is about providing certainty. Of course, we do live in a volatile world, so were there to be a massive global shock again. My government will always respond, but this is about providing some certainty going forward into the future. We only had the peace deal between the United States and Iran announced in the last week, and that’s why, in the lead up to the end of the financial year June, there was a need for us to delay a decision to this point, but also to bear in mind, Kieran, that on July one, every Australian worker will get a tax cut. There are other relief measures coming in for the new financial year going forward, and that will make a positive difference to people’s living standards and cost of living pressures, as well.
KIERAN GILBERT: Parliament back tomorrow for the week, a big focus on your tax changes, with the argument that you and the Treasury remain that 98% of businesses aren’t affected over $10 million turnover. What about the small, small, and medium-sized businesses that might want to grow their business over $10 million turnover, but they say no. Where’s the, where’s the goal in that? Is this a tax on aspiration then?
PRIME MINISTER: No, it’s certainly not. This encourages aspiration, and bear this in mind, Kieran. We’re talking about capital gains tax, which is at the end, at the point of realisation, and so this isn’t an ongoing tax on a week to week basis, and so this will exclude every small business, will make a difference. In addition to that, we’ve got the discussion paper out there about startups.
KIERAN GILBERT: What do you say to a small business person who might, because I’ve had them say this to me in the last few days, actually saying, where’s my aspirational, my motivation to grow the business over 10 million turnover? What do you say to them directly this morning?
PRIME MINISTER: What I say to them is that the aspiration is the same, as for every worker, to aspire to more income, to aspire to be better off in life, and what we’re doing is better aligning income from work with income from assets. It’s only when most people go into small business as well, Kieran, they don’t go in, so they can start a small business today and sell it tomorrow. They’re in it to build a future. Many small businesses, of course, over a period of time, are intergenerational. That’s part of the aspiration in Australia as well. So this is removing an anomaly, really, that was there, that saw from 1999 what we saw was additional investment funnelled into housing that’s had a real impact on property, that has meant that young Australians are simply priced out of the housing.
KIERAN GILBERT: Are you adamant, so, then you’re adamant you’ve got the design right now, because we’re hearing from fund managers over the weekend who say that the 20 biggest companies will be the biggest beneficiaries of the changes, as investors will shift out of high growth stocks into high yield stocks, the bigger companies, the more mature companies.
PRIME MINISTER: Bear in mind there is self-interest in much of the commentary, which is being made here. What this reform is about fundamentally is making sure that young Australians can aspire to having a roof over their head. That is what this change is about, by making sure that when it comes to the negative gearing changes, changing it so that it, rather than seeing all of the investment going into property rather than other areas, there’ll be people looking towards investment in other areas of growth, and that for the young Australian who yesterday turned up at an auction, they weren’t competing, unlike last year, weren’t competing with investors who had taxpayer support, so that if it was another $20,000 or $50,000, that investor could go that bit higher and outbid the first home buyer, a couple looking to secure their future for their family.
KIERAN GILBERT: Have you got the data to show that? Is there data that you’re going to deliver to the Australian people, and say, “look, this is working.” We hear the anecdotes. You can argue it, but will you have the data to say to the Australian people, this is how many young first-time buyers are in the market because of that change?
PRIME MINISTER: That is precisely what is happening Kieran, and we know that that is occurring because the comments that are made by some of the critics of this policy, who say investors now aren’t investing, that says it all. Now, investors, as well, importantly, if they want to invest using negative gearing, they can still do so, but as well as investing in their own future assets and future wealth, they’ll be investing in the future assets and future wealth of the nation, and that will build supply, because all of the measures that we have taken, whether it was the Housing Australia Future Fund for increased social housing, whether it be Help to Buy to encourage through shared equity people into their first home, the 5% deposits that have helped now more than 260,000 Australians into their first home. All of those measures were built to rent for the private sector. They were all aimed as well at supply measures and giving young people a fair crack. Now this next measure will do that as well.
KIERAN GILBERT: You’ve got two years to make that case, but the Treasurer has said that you’ve lost political paint. The government has conceded that you’ve been the subject of a barrage of a campaign from One Nation, really in many ways the most effective critic of you in the last little while, calling this campaign “fire the liar.” Are you worried that some of that damage is irreparable politically?
PRIME MINISTER: What I’m doing here, Kieran, is what I was elected to do, which was to do the right thing for the nation. Now you can sit back and say, well, we acknowledge that there’s a problem with housing in this country, that the housing structure and system isn’t working for Australians, but we can’t do anything about it, or you can say, I’m going to make a difficult decision for the right reasons to help the nation.
KIERAN GILBERT: Do you need to, do you need to apologise, though? Those who voted, you didn’t say it before the election, would it help stem the damage if you apologise?
PRIME MINISTER: Let’s be very clear, Kieran. Anyone who has a negatively geared property has had no chance to being able to continue to have that negative gearing. There’s been a lot of misinformation out there, indeed. Some of the proponents of the memes have acknowledged, have said, well, it wasn’t accurate, it wasn’t real, but that’s the way you get attention. So, they’ve said that themselves. What we will do is, we will pass this legislation. It will make a positive difference for Australians. It will enable more young Australians to get into their first home. It will boost productivity by removing the distortion of where investment goes in our economy as well, and we will continue to prioritise cost of living measures. One Nation will continue to, along with the other right-wing parties, oppose all of the measures that have made a difference to people, whether it be.
KIERAN GILBERT: But they say they’re upfront with the Australian people, and then you’re not being upfront, you weren’t upfront, and you haven’t said sorry for that.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that’s nonsense. The fact is that One Nation pretend that they stand for workers whilst getting planes given to them by Australia’s richest person, while receiving donations from some of the very wealthiest people, while making sure, as well, that they want it to be easier to sack people, they oppose increases in the minimum wage, they oppose our support for child care. They’ve opposed our support and expansion and strengthening of Medicare. They’ve opposed free TAFE to give Australians the skills that they need, and so at the same time, you can’t say we want to stop migration but not want to upskill Australians to give Australians the skills to fill the job. So Australian industry can continue to thrive.
KIERAN GILBERT: On the migration question, that’s driven a lot of this surge for One Nation. The number last week hanging at net overseas migration still running above 300,000. That’s still 45, well you say it’s 45% from its peak?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we don’t say that, that’s a fact.
KIERAN GILBERT: No, it is, but it’s still, it’s still well up on what was pre-COVID.
PRIME MINISTER: No, let’s be clear here. COVID happened, and the borders were shut. When the borders opened after COVID, you not only had tourists coming to Australia who weren’t coming beforehand, who have counted in their overseas migration, you also have Australians coming home who were locked out, so it was always going to be a spike in migration. What we have done is make sure we’ve got those figures down by 45% from their peak, and the 2022 figure that was when it peaked under the settings left for us by the Coalition government.
KIERAN GILBERT: Have you got more work to do on this? Because we’re still running at the pre-pandemic higher than the pre-pandemic levels. You can see
PRIME MINISTER: What we have done is they are coming down. 45% is a pretty serious lower trajectory, Kieran, and that will continue to come down. It will hit 225,000 over the next few years. That is what the objective is. The objective is working, and for the changes that we introduced, for example, on students coming here, the restrictions and numbers that was opposed by all of the right-wing parties in the parliament, the Liberals, the Nationals, and One Nation.
KIERAN GILBERT: Looks like, some foreign policy if I can now, your friend Keir Starmer’s days are numbered in number 10 by the looks as though Andy Burnham won the Makerfield by-election. I know it’s a long way away, but it looks like you’re going to be dealing with a new Prime Minister, can you deal with a Prime Minister Burnham in the UK, if that’s how it unfolds.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we’ll deal with whoever is elected with our partners, but I must say that the history of just changing leaders is not a positive one. I’ve dealt with already four British prime ministers since I’ve been elected as prime minister, and so
KIERAN GILBERT: So, you would urge stability from them?
PRIME MINISTER: I think stability is a good thing, and yeah, I’m on my fourth Liberal Party leader as well. It must be said, and I don’t know how many National Party leaders as well, but you know, they haven’t even got a National party leader is in the House of Representatives at the moment, so it’s, it’s been a lot of chaos has occurred in global politics. One of the things that my government has provided is stability and order and getting things done, so we’ve had one prime minister, one defence, foreign affairs treasurer, finance minister, people in key portfolios like trade, and with that comes experience and stability and certainty going forward.
KIERAN GILBERT: To go back to something we were on a little earlier on the foreign policy front, the Iranian deal. Just to clarify, if the US does remove sanctions on Iran to get to shore up that deal, will we remove sanctions against Iran? And is it complicated by the fact that we’ve designated the Iranian Revolutionary Guard a terrorist group?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we’ll make our own decisions as a sovereign nation, Kieran, and bear this in mind, that Iran orchestrated attacks on Australian soil. We don’t take it lightly. We expelled the Iranian ambassador from Australia, the first time an ambassador has been expelled since the Second World War.
KIERAN GILBERT: On Ukraine, slamming Moscow with some strikes, direct strikes on Moscow over the last few days. Do you welcome that? Is that a good thing to see Ukraine still packing a punch well over four years on?
PRIME MINISTER: I want to see peace, and so do the Ukrainian people. So does President Zelensky. The responsibility for this is purely with Vladimir Putin and the Russian regime, which has chosen to continue to pursue what is an illegal and an immoral war against Ukraine, the Ukrainian people. The Ukrainian people have stood up, and we have stood with them, because this is a fight, not just in that part of the world, a land war in Europe, but it’s a fight for the international rule of law as well. We don’t want to see a large country be able to be successful in oppressing and invading a smaller country, and that’s why.
KIERAN GILBERT: But the fact that they’re still fighting, that’s a good thing, isn’t it?
PRIME MINISTER: We have continued to provide support for Ukraine, and we’ll continue to provide support for as long as possible, and we’ve provided additional support for Ukraine just in the last week.
KIERAN GILBERT: A couple of left field ones, so to speak, one on the field, we’ll get the World Cup in a moment, but I know you’ve said you’ll serve to the next election, and you’re going to run it then the next election, 2028. There’s been a lot of speculation about who the heir apparent is. Would Mark Butler be your preferred heir apparent? He’s a good friend of yours isn’t he?
PRIME MINISTER: I am very happy to do the job that I have, and one of the good things about our government is there isn’t any speculation. We’re a united team.
KIERAN GILBERT: You don’t want me to foster that today?
PRIME MINISTER: We’re a united team, and we all work together as a unit. I’ve got a job to do, and I think it is particularly important. The next election will be a big one. No election can be taken for granted. I certainly don’t, but we were successful last time. Some people wrote us off before the 2025 election. We returned with not just the majority government, you know, an increase –
KIERAN GILBERT: People always wonder who’s next, I know you’re enjoying the job and working hard at the job now, but people thinking, Who’s next?
PRIME MINISTER: No one in our caucus is worried about that. What we’re worried about is today and dealing with this term and improving living standards, continuing to have a strong economy, continuing to deal with education. We’ve had big announcements just this week on early education as well, a 15% increase for early educators. We’ve continued to deal with the fuel crisis in a way that is successful. Can you imagine the other chaos which is there on the other side of politics dealing with this current global fuel crisis? How would they have gone about the relationships with Singapore, Brunei, Malaysia, China, Japan, South Korea? How would they have gone about dealing with these issues, and the question of leadership remains, of course, one where Angus Taylor, you know, was responsible for a coup against Sussan Ley at a time when they were busy arguing amongst themselves, you’ve had a National Party coup as well. We’ll wait and see who the opposition is at the time of the next election. The one thing you can be certain of is who the government is and what our values are.
KIERAN GILBERT: The opposition leader coming up shortly on the program, so I’ll get his response to you on that one. But on the World Cup, obviously we’re hoping that we can beat Paraguay on Friday. If we do, the Socceroos, I mean, would you consider going over to the World Cup or sending a minister? If we do make it further into the competition?
PRIME MINISTER: We’ll wait and see how we go, but our priority isn’t who’s there. Our priority is the Socceroos being there and going deep into this tournament. They’re doing Australians proud, carrying every one of them, and they represent modern Australia as well. They’re fantastic people. I had the honour of having Tony Popovich and the team at my office just at the end of last year, before they played New Zealand in the Ashes there at Canberra, but they have done Australia proud, and for all those Aussies who are over there as well, cheering their team on, they’re proud Australians as well, and we’re all, we’re all with you. If we’re not in the stands, we’re watching on TV as, as we have the first two games, I’m sure on Friday the whole of Australia will stop for a little while and share the soccer result,
KIERAN GILBERT: Fingers crossed, it’s time for a win. Prime Minister, thanks for your time, appreciate
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, Kieran.
