BEN FORDHAM: Scott Morrison, Prime Minister, good morning to you.
PRIME MINISTER: Good morning from Townsville, Ben.
FORDHAM: What are you doing in Townsville?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, making some important announcements today regarding getting the cost of electricity down for businesses. A grant program which is supporting small businesses and medium sized businesses to help them get the right sort of energy equipment into their business, and keeps, helps keep their power prices down. It’s one of the key issues that small businesses in particular face when electricity prices have fallen 8 per cent over the last two years with the policies we put in place and we want to help small and medium sized businesses power down their electricity costs so they can power up their performance and create more jobs.
FORDHAM: I think one of the big talking points today is what Defence Minister Peter Dutton said yesterday on Anzac Day, warning that Australia needs to prepare for war. I suppose we’ve always got to be prepared, but things are interesting at the moment because of what’s happening with China and the Solomon Islands. But how prepared are we? We’ve ordered nuclear submarines that won’t be ready until 2039? New frigates not ready until 2031? So as we prepare for war, how ready are we if one started today?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, let me put it in this context. When we came to government, the spending on defence as a share of the size of our economy was 1.56 per cent. Now that was the lowest level we’ve seen since, I think it was 1938. And so over these years, we’ve increased our spending up to just 2 per cent now, and it’s going higher, but it’s 2 per cent now. Now, the difference is that over that period of time, if we kept it where Labor had it, we would’ve spent $55 billion less. And so there will be investments in any and the size of our Defence Force, the basis, the equipment, the material, the Air Force planes, all of these sorts of things have been increasing over these many years, and it’s, we’ve been restoring our defence forces. People remember when Labor was last in power, they had to cut defence spending because they lost control of the borders. And Brendan O’Connor, people might not know who he is, but Brendan O’Connor is the Shadow Minister for Defence. He’s the guy who would be the Defence Minister, if Peter Dutton was not the Defence Minister in our government. Now he is the guy who was the Immigration Minister. One of Labor’s failed immigration ministers who couldn’t control our borders and now Labor Party wants him to control our defence forces. Now, Peter Dutton, as we know, he followed me as Minister for Immigration and as Home Affairs Minister and what Peter was saying yesterday, I think it was important. Of course, no-one wants to see a war and no one is believing that is about to be what is going to happen. And I want to reassure Australians about that. We prepared for these things to ensure we can keep stability and peace within our region. That’s why we did the AUKUS agreement with the United Kingdom and the United States. That’s why we drove the step-up of the QUAD, which is the partnership we have with India and Japan, the United States and ourselves. All of this was to provide the counterbalance, the effective working relationships in the region to ensure we can prevent those very outcomes. You’d expect the Defence Minister to be getting us in a position to ensure that Australia can have the best possible Defence Force (inaudible).
FORDHAM: You say if China sets up a base in the Solomon Islands that will be a red line. And look, I’ll read you some feedback. These are ordinary people saying, g’day Ben, no matter what we do, we’ll never be able to defend ourselves against the military might of China. Is that right?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it’s not, it’s not, Ben, the military things that we do. I just mentioned two really important initiatives, which were groundbreaking. I mean, no-one else in the world has been able to get access to the military technology that the United States have, particularly for nuclear powered submarines since the British in 1958.
FORDHAM: They’re a long way off being available to us, though. Are we ready now? If something was to happen now, how ready are we?
PRIME MINISTER: With great respect, AUKUS is not just about nuclear powered submarines. It is about cyber security and cyber defence. The first shots fired in any conflict are actually in bits and bytes. It’s not in bullets. And that’s why we have undertaken record investment and a big part of that is what we are doing with the United States, and what we are doing with the United Kingdom. The AUKUS agreement, yes, a lot of the focus has been on the nuclear powered submarines. That’s true, but the AUKUS agreement was way bigger than that. And it’s ensuring that we have comprehensive defences in modern, in modern warfare, things that insure us, ensure, that we can put out our best defences in place and do that in partnership with our allies in our region. During the ANZUS alliance, the ANZUS alliance, 70 years ago, that basically joined us together with the United States and aimed at their abilities and capabilities working together in our region. That’s why what I said about a red line in the Pacific, that is much, that is the US policy as well. But the other point I’d make is this, Ben. In the region, we are concerned for all the countries in the region. There are 20 Pacific Island Forum nations, in addition to Australia, in that – so there are 20 areas in which we’re looking to ensure we counter that influence. You know, I was the first Prime Minister to go and have a formal visit to Fiji with the Prime Minister of Fiji in a bilateral meeting, not going there for a conference with Prime Minister Bainimarama. I was also the first who went to Vanuatu for that purpose. And in addition, I was in the Solomon Islands after the last election. The last person who went there was Kevin Rudd many, many years ago. So we’ve been very focussed. We’ve opened six diplomatic missions, or embassies, and so we’re the only country in the world to have an Embassy, and to use a more common term, in every single one of those Pacific Island nations, and I put six in directly as Prime Minister. So it’s an area where, which is extremely contested and and as a result, we’ve always been leaning heavily forward. But we’re dealing with the Chinese Government that doesn’t play by the same rules.
FORDHAM: I mentioned 25 days to go until the election. We know that campaigns get ugly and I’ve noticed some disgusting anti-semitic comments that have been sent the way of the Treasurer Josh Frydenberg, including this one on Facebook. The world would have been a better place if your grandparents never survived the Holocaust. Now I know that they were disgusting attacks being thrown around by all sorts of people at the moment, but you would think that there would be a line drawn in the sand when it comes to these kinds of disgusting comments.
FORDHAM: Well, I think that is sickening. And I mean, Josh, as you know, is a dear friend of mine. I spent Passover with Josh and his family, and I went to the local synagogue there with him. And I had, you know, I grew up in a policy where I grew up with many Jewish friends and families, and have a deep connection with them. And this sort of thing has no place in Australia, and it is deeply disturbing and it is not the view of Australians. This is a minority of just, you know, people whose intolerance knows no bounds.
FORDHAM: I want to ask you about the liberal candidate for Warringah, Katherine Deves. You said this time last week, I’m not going to allow her to be silenced. Now, she’s been wanting to talk to us on the radio for over a week now, but Liberal Party HQ won’t let her on the air, so it sounds like your party is silencing her too.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I’m certainly not doing that. I mean she was on SBS the other night, and Katherine knows that I’ve been consistently very supportive of her. And the reason for that, is she’s raising this important issue of women and girls in sport. I think it’s a very common sense position. I have no doubt that if she’d been talking about any other issue, you wouldn’t have had people pouring over everything she’s ever said. And in the way they have, in an attempt to try and silence her. And, you know, I think she’ll continue to stand up on these issues, as she has been. And I’m concerned about some of the reports I’ve seen. I’ve been in contact with Katherine just to make sure she’s okay in terms of what people read about some of the threats that she’s received. And so I think it’s really important that we just bring it back to the simple point she’s making about women and girls in sport. It’s very common sense. I mean, I think parents want to have this discussion in a civil way and in a respectful way. But the point she’s making are pretty obvious, and what I’m surprised about is the reaction to her comments on women and girls in sport and the way people have tried to try and just basically take her out.
PRIME MINISTER: We’re talking to Prime Minister Scott Morrison, live from Townsville. PM, in the last few days, you’ve spoken about the importance of standing up for women. Recently, I hosted an awards night where Christine Holgate was on it, and she gave an emotional speech about her removal from Australia Post. And she even spoke about thinking about ending her life as a result of the pile on that followed. And I’ve expressed here before I think she was unfairly treated in late 2020, including when you stood up in Parliament and said she can stand aside or she can go. And this is all over the Cartier watches that were a bonus for some executives who’d secured a $220 million deal from the banks. You’ve acknowledged that sometimes we say things, I certainly do, that we think back and think I could have handled that better. Have you had time to reflect on your words that day? And would you handle something like that differently in the future?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I said so not long after at the time, Ben. I mean, it was a very heated day in the Parliament on that occasion. We were being accused of being complicit in having taxpayers money used to buy Cartier watches. Now, I can imagine the sort of questions I would have got from you had you thought that. And so I responded to that, and I already said my tone on that day and the way I responded in the heat of the Parliament, you know, I should have been more measured on that day. The principle though, hasn’t changed. And the point about if you’re running a government company, it’s not running a private company and there are different standards that apply there. And that’s the point I was making at the time. I’m pleased that Ms Holgate has gone on to a very successful career. She’s a very capable and she’s doing something she loves now. I’m quite sure she’s doing even better than she was before. So I wish her all the best. But when you’re involved in running a government owned company, then there’s scrutiny that’s applied there, that is applied to ministers of the Government every day and ministers who have stood aside when I’ve had enquiries put in place for them, and that was the standard I’ve applied to my own ministers and and those who run government companies. You know, sign up to the same type of scrutiny.
FORDHAM: Well, I just wanted to put it on the record that she has been cleared of wrongdoing following an investigation by the Department of Finance, and she had the authority to gift up to $150,000 per staff member. She bought the $5,000 Cartier watches and this was a thank you because they’ve done this incredible thing. They got all this money out of the banks to keep post offices open and continue regional banking services. And this kind of followed your motto of if you have a go, you get a go. So we just want to confirm in your eyes, Christine Holgate didn’t do anything wrong? She didn’t break the rules.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, Ben. I’m not going to go back over the issue other than to say. No, I still don’t think it’s a good idea for taxpayers money, which is what is in a government company to be used to buy Cartier watches. I don’t agree with that. The Board didn’t agree with that either.
FORDHAM: So what about the current bosses at Australia Post last year? 31 Australia Post staff on salaries between $300,000 and $400,000 received an average bonus of $170,000. That’s 34 Cartier watches each. One staffer received a $500,000 bonus, that’s 100 Cartier watches. So do we take on the new CEO Paul Graham in the same way?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, there are remuneration arrangements that apply to bonuses, Ben. But what we’re talking about here is taxpayers’ money being used to buy Cartier watches, and I just don’t think that passes the test. I never thought it did. But what I was simply saying at the time was there should be an inquiry into this, and Ms Holgate should have stood aside while that was done, and if she was cleared of that, then she could have continued on in her job. That was always my position. And then it occurred, she will probably still be there now. But anyway, she’s going on to other things. I wish her well and all of that. But when you’re running a company that’s owned by the Government, which is all taxpayers money, then I think there are judgements that you need to make about those things which also have to survive public scrutiny.
FORDHAM: In the heat of in the heat of the moment, I suppose we all say things, I know I’ve been guilty of it, we all say things that when we look back, we think, oh, I might have been able to tone that down just a little bit.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that’s what I’ve already said to you Ben.
FORDHAM: We appreciate your time today. Are you going to win the election?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the election’s a choice. It’s an absolute choice, Ben. And we’ve got about three and a half weeks to go in this election. It’s a choice between a government who knows how to manage money, that has run a strong economy, that has a clear economic plan to ensure that we continue to grow jobs. I mean unemployment’s down to 4 per cent and falling. We’ve turned around the Budget by over $100 billion in the last 12 months, we’ve maintained our AAA credit rating. The Labor Party doesn’t have an economic plan. They don’t have a vision for how they take the Australian economy forward. And that would leave Australians with a weaker economy, not a stronger one. It’s a choice between a government you do know and a Labor Opposition and a Labor Leader that you don’t. And just coming back from that issue on the Solomon Islands, Ben. This gives you a good idea. What they’re putting out today, the Labor Party, is basically a continuation of all the things that we’re currently doing, with one exception. They think the way to solve the problem in the Solomon Islands is to send in the ABC. I mean, it’s farcical. I mean their answer to solving the Solomon Islands problem is to have Q&A in Honiara. I don’t think that’s a true reflection or an understanding of the challenges that we face there. We’ve been very focussed on our investment in the Pacific to keep Australians safe. And what we’ve done around the world has been acknowledged. I mean the United States, when I was there talking at the House of Congress and over there and their leadership, they were amazed at the strength that our government has shown in standing up to the coercion and threats that we’ve seen from the Chinese Government. No Australian Government has stood up more firmly to the Chinese Government’s coercion of our region and Australia and our government, and we will keep doing that with a great team. In, of course, Peter Dutton and Marise Payne, and the whole team that continues to stand up for Australia every single day.
FORDHAM: Well I know you sent out a tweet when Anthony Albanese went into COVID isolation. Have you checked in on him? Are you going to be checking in on him to see how he’s doing? Because he’ll be out pretty soon and then it’s game on all over again.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it remains, the campaign remains on now, Ben. Nothing’s changed. And we’ve seen from, from those who would step up into Anthony Albanese’s position, an absolute muddle. I mean, their position on our traditional industries. I mean, Pat Conroy, Meryl Swanson, they’re the, they’re the members up in the Hunter. Say that no single Australian coal mine would be impacted by their safeguards mechanism, which is, effectively their carbon tax. And then we have Chris Bowen saying they will. But it’s not just the coal mining industry, but what they’re increasing prices, they’re increasing costs on traditional industry because under their climate policy is on mining and gas, oil, rail freight, cement production, fuel refining and sectors of that nature. So at this election there’s a clear choice between us saying we’ve made our commitments, not through higher taxes and not by imposing taxes on people, and the Labor Party who want to put taxes on these activities that mean real jobs. Up there in the Hunter, there are 10,000 jobs at risk from what Labor is proposing when it comes to their carbon credit scheme, which is just another carbon tax by Labor.
PRIME MINISTER: We’ll see you back in Sydney soon. Thanks for sparing so much time with us this morning.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks a lot, Ben.
FORDHAM: Good on you. Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, calling in from Townsville.
