Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister
KIERAN GILBERT, HOST: Joining me live in the studio is Patrick Gorman. He’s the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister. Thanks for your time. Why does the government need a further inquiry into the Morrison secret ministries?
PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: Well, the advice we got that was put out to the public today, received by the government yesterday, does raise some further questions. We want to make sure that this never happens again. It should never have happened in the first place. And it has opened up a whole range of questions around how do you make sure that the standards that are expected throughout Westminster traditions are upheld? So getting a legal professional, eminent Australian to do that further inquiry, because there are questions, indeed, you’ve been asking some of them on your show today. Getting that opportunity to make sure that we get to the absolute bottom of this is essential. And that was the view that the government took.
GILBERT: It seems pretty clear to me what one of the big things you need to do is just ensure and via legislation, as the Prime Minister said in his answer to my question and others today at the press conference, is legislative requirement for governments to release publicly any change to the ministry. That seems a no brainer. What beyond that do you go to?
GORMAN: We’ve always expected that when the Prime Minister stands at the dispatch box and announces changes to the ministry, we always expected that that was the full story. And what Scott Morrison did was break that convention. And so what the Prime Minister has done today in his directive to the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet to ensure that that convention is upheld in the actions we take. But if you want to get to that point of legislation, particularly where you’re legislating something that is previously a long standing convention, you do want to do that carefully. And therefore it is appropriate that we get the best legal advice and make sure that we don’t leave one bit wanting by omission. We’ve got some very good advice from the Solicitor General today, but it’s not the full story.
GILBERT: It’s very rare. I mean, I can’t even recall it in the 20 years I’ve been covering politics, the release of a Solicitor General advice to government. So it’s unusual to take this course of action.
GORMAN: Well, these are very unusual circumstances where we’ve had a former Prime Minister when he held that office trash convention and this was done interestingly on the advice, possibly even only verbal advice of the then Attorney General, Christian Porter, I think is also equally bizarre. And what this advice shows us today is that the excuses and denials that Peter Dutton was making last week were completely inadequate. It was a complete lack of leadership from Peter Dutton when he pretended there was nothing to see here, that we should just move on. And so this shows that Peter Dutton didn’t show leadership last week and it calls on him this afternoon to show leadership about what he is going to do with his backbencher, to show leadership on what he is going to do to make sure that the Liberal and National Party can never behave with this level of secrecy and deception ever again.
GILBERT: Mr Dutton’s office have released a statement saying that the opposition will work with the government on any reasonable proposals to provide clarity to processes and improve transparency in Ministerial appointments. Do you welcome that cooperation?
GORMAN: He could have said that a week ago. Peter Dutton could have said that a week ago. He chose not to. Because what we know is that one of the reasons that Scott Morrison swore himself in as a secret Minister into the Resources portfolio is because the arrangement that Peter Dutton presides over as Leader of the Opposition of the Coalition is broken. The Liberal Party and the National Party don’t trust each other. They can’t work together. That’s why. And this document, today’s document from the Solicitor General shows that because there was distrust, the Prime Minister of the day in Scott Morrison didn’t think that Keith Pitt was going to fulfil the decisions of cabinet. So rather than go to Cabinet, he swore himself in as a secret Minister. Now, if that doesn’t show Peter Dutton that the arrangements between the Liberal Party and the National Party and their secret Coalition deal aren’t working, I don’t know what does. And so he can work with us on the things that we will do to bring integrity back to government, but he also needs to do some work inside his Coalition.
GILBERT: The government is spending a fair bit of time at the moment on this, obviously with another inquiry coming. Are you concerned by the suggestion from the opposition, among others, that the government is distracted by targeting the former Prime Minister instead of bread and butter issues for voters?
GORMAN: I think the key piece of that question is voters. Voters expect when they vote in a government that we will follow convention. We will follow not just the word of the Constitution, but the intent on which it’s written. And I think if I actually look at the release here, it said, ‘while apart from those conventions and practices does not result in invalidity, they remain important as, quote, part of the fabric on which the written words of the Constitution are superimposed’. So when a voter goes to vote, they expect that we will follow all of those conventions. When that trust is broken, that is a very serious thing. And so we have not only our agenda of making sure that we get our Employment White Paper done. Making sure that we deliver on our commitments around Aged Care. Child care. Our commitments to get Australia to net zero by 2050, if not sooner. Making sure we get all those things done. We have to do all that while restoring integrity that was completely trashed by the actions of one individual – Scott Morrison. And I still find it unbelievable that no one pulled him up on it, no one in Cabinet. We shouldn’t have to deal with this, but it’s been left on our plate by the former government and so we’ll do what’s appropriate.
GILBERT: Yeah. And indeed, the Solicitor General has made it clear that this is not consistent with the principle of responsible government inherent in the constitution. However, from a political perspective, you’re riding high in the polls now. But do you recognise that the Australian people want you focused on issues that affect them and none of this really does in day-to-day lives, affect the Australian people, doesn’t when they’re struggling with cost of living and things like that. You’ve got to get back to those issues, don’t you?
GORMAN: People’s faith is in that we can address all those issues which are important, making sure that people can get cheaper childcare, making sure they get value for money, making sure that the government gets value for money, making sure there’s integrity in those decisions, all those things are important. But when the foundation of a government is under question, which is what happened because of Scott Morrison’s actions, then we have an obligation and of course, we’d rather not have to deal with this, but just because there was a mess that needs to be cleaned up, we can’t say it was the fault of the previous government, we’re not going to take it seriously. This is so serious.
GILBERT: Should he be censured then?
GORMAN: That would be a decision that the Parliament itself makes. I don’t believe in pre-empting decisions of the Parliament and that sort of a nature. I think we do need some serious consequences for Scott Morrison. That is true. Exactly what nature those serious consequences are, I don’t want to prescribe those on your program today. I’ve had one chance to read through this and again, this is one particular piece of advice around a particular part of the range of secret ministries. I think we do need to be open to what choices are available to the Parliament to make. I also would expect a bit more of an apology that’s the other thing. I don’t know in the statement that you just referred to from the Leader of the Opposition whether there’s a clear apology from himself on behalf of his party to the people of Australia. We know that Scott Morrison chose last week to apologise to his colleagues, but not to apologise to the Australian people. That would probably be a step in the right direction, if we want to talk about people taking responsibility, stepping up and owning their mistakes. Maybe that would be a good way to get things moving, rather than necessarily running immediately to that particular outcome. But it’s a real mess and there’s a real failure of leadership.
GILBERT: On the Job Summit coming next week. The Government is holding dozens of round tables around the country and the lead up to it. What would be a success in your mind out of that Summit next week? What needs to be achieved?
GORMAN: We need to firstly deal with some of the immediate pressures in our economy, that is, making sure we can get more people into work and more skills into our workforce, so that small businesses in particular, who are really trying to find those skills to keep their businesses thriving, can.
GILBERT: And more people into the country?
GORMAN: Of course, that’s one of the ways we’re going to have to get additional skills into our workforce, given the circumstances we’re in. So that’s on the immediate. What we wanted to also get out of this on the long term is start to work towards that Employment White Paper. That big strategic piece of work that outlines how we’re going to make sure that every Australian who wants a job can get a job. That it’s a good job. They can get the skills for that job and that it’s a secure job. That’s where we’re really heading and bringing people together for that piece of work is really important.
GILBERT: Would you like to see a permanent increase in the level of skilled migration as well?
GORMAN: When you talk about permanency, I think the thing that’s going to strengthen Australia’s migration programme is it’s always been flexible in our national interest. So when we see right now our nation needs more skilled workers and we need a different range of skilled workers to what we’ve been calling on in the past, so let’s get those workers in. There’s been some points put forward by the Minister for Employment around how we might start getting that piece working. There’ll be more discussions leading into the Skills Summit next week, and what I think is really encouraging is that there is so much on the table. We’re having a really open conversation, we’re having a lot of people put their ideas out in public. We welcome that. There’s a lot of people who will come to the Skills Summit next week to outline how we continue to work forward on those things. But let’s just have that basic principle when it comes to skilled migration. Let’s make sure it’s flexible and in our international interest.
GILBERT: It seems a long way since the election and certainly in the opinion polls that suggest that the government is riding high, these times don’t always last. But given the recent history for the Labor Party in opposition for nearly a decade, must be a good mood in there.
GORMAN: I think we feel like we’re able to deliver on the agenda that we put forward to the Australian people. That’s what gets me out of bed every morning. That’s what gives us energy, is making sure that we deliver on those things that we said we would. Action on climate change, restoring trust and integrity in government, making sure that we have good quality education so people can get the skills they want and the careers that they want. Acting on the recommendations of the Aged Care Royal Commission. Working to make sure the child care is more affordable and more accessible for working families. And that’s just a little bit of it.
GILBERT: You must enjoy reading those polls. The numbers that have the primary vote at 42, up from 33.
GORMAN: Well, I enjoy reading every page of the Sydney Morning Herald, I’ll say that. It’s a great publication. It’s got lots of interesting of things in it, indeed including polling from time to time.
GILBERT: Patrick Gorman, Assistant Minister of the Prime Minister. Thank you as always.
GORMAN: Thank you.
